Noise on phoneline when ADSL online (last 5 weeks)

I am hoping that someone can offer a solution to my problem. --- For the last five weeks (approx) I have had a continuous hiss on my phone line. This is not to be confused by the usual 'water in the phone lines' problem we have all suffered at some time or other. This noise is not bad enough to make conversation impossible but I also use a dial-up account and I get around 31. 2kbps connection speed! Worst of all, the noise is not 24/7 and occasionally its 100% perfect. - - I plugged in a older ADSL modem and the line was clear, so I figured it must be the modem - wrong! I purchased a brand new Linksys 160N and the darn noise is still there. Chorus came around today and checked out my in-line filter - perfect. Unplug the ADSL modem and the hiss has gone!

geek_sighkick, Sep 21, 8:47 pm

The question is. . . . . What has changed in the last 5 weeks?

Is it the installation of ADSL2+ roadside cabinets?

Is it the frequencies being utilised that are bleeding back into my phone lines?

Is anyone else having this problem?

Will you check out the system at your house please - TIA

geek_sighkick, Sep 21, 8:50 pm

had anyone put up an electric fence or has there been heavy rain?

geek_hfdavis, Sep 21, 9:13 pm

Hi hfdavis I am in the middle of a city suburb and the noise on the line is NOT the usual crackle associated with water on the lines. As mentioned above, the line becomes clear when I unplug the ADSL modem. The noise IS being caused by the ADSL modem and I have tried a Dynalink, Netgear and a brand new Linksys 160N - all the same. So to re-iterate, no modem, all clear, plug in modem, continuous 'hiss' noise present. The question is, why are the modems back-feeding this hiss now - what has changed? I would put it down to a wider band of the sound spectrum being used to carry the more powerful ADSL 2+ but how can I prove that? Is it a coincidence that my problems started roughly when they started rolling out Roadside Cabinets for ADSL 2+ ?

geek_sighkick, Sep 21, 10:23 pm

It could be a lines issue then best bet would be to report this problem to your isp who will then get a chorus tech to check your line for noise

geek_baker-assoc, Sep 21, 10:24 pm

Hi baker-assoc I have had a Chorus tech here today as stated above. He checked the line without my ADSL router attached and the line was clear. He even checked out my in-line filter (as stated above). It is caused by something that has changed in the last 5 weeks. It is only present when I have the ADSL Modem / Router plugged in. It is 'probably' something to do with the wider (lower) spectrum of sound being used and by-passing the filter. Any Telecom / Chorus gurus around? p. s. we don't use electric fences in the suburbs :)

geek_sighkick, Sep 21, 10:30 pm

Isn't a master/splitter filter at demarc a better idea.

geek_spyware, Sep 21, 11:00 pm

Hi spyware. . . . Not sure what you are suggesting here? I have an in-line filter which is effectively at the demarc point. I have brought the demarc point inside so that the splitter is nice and dry rather than in a damp plastic box on the outside of my house. So the phone line comes in to this master point that has the splitter inside with a socket for ADSL and one for regular phone. The filtered line then goes to the other phone outlets around the house. The Chorus technician had no problem with the installation which was in itself done by a Telecom Technician. What we need now is not another technician but a GURU SENIOR TECHNICIAN.

geek_sighkick, Sep 21, 11:19 pm

HI, Sighkick what it could be is the type of phone you got. Does it happen on all your phones or just the 1? and there is another thing that could be causing it, which is your modem cables being close to a muilti power adapter or power plugs from other devices. There is another trick that could be done aswell, you could try putting a inline filter into the dedicated DSL jacpoint before it reaches your modem, having it dual filtered in a way. ( This may slightly slow your DSL speed down though ) Let us know how you get on.

geek_boobeer, Sep 22, 12:00 am

yeah yeah its bad noise eh. . . crash internet and take me for a walk aye.

geek_olack, Sep 22, 12:14 am

Have you considered. . . The modem itself -most domestic modems only come with a 1 year guarantee - a power surge down the phone line can do a lot of damage to modems plus most are pretty cheap/nasty electronics

geek_resolutionx, Sep 22, 1:02 am

#11 have you considered getting soem reading glasses ? . . . . . . . . the original poster states very clearly TWICE that they bought a NEW modem after this issue started. . . . . . duh !

geek_drcspy, Sep 22, 4:37 am

lol . . . . . . . .

geek_boobeer, Sep 22, 2:47 pm

Update. . . . . In no particular order:I have tried THREE DIFFERENT MODEMS -- the old Dynalink, the Netgear DG834G and also the new Linksys 160N. --- Point two - the layout of all the power cables, UPS and powerbox strip outlets has remained constant for about 4 years. Point three - the problem only started 5 weeks ago, nothing has changed in at least 4 years (using same phone(s) - usually only one connected). Point four - - the only thing that has changed in those five weeks is that New Plymouth is being fitted with Roadside Cabinets and ADSL 2+ is being livened on some peoples lines (not mine yet). Telecom seems to be the culprit here but I need to prove it. I will try the double filter idea when I ask for my filters back from a friend. The ADSL modem seems to be now generating a lower frequency hiss that is being allowed through the filter back into the phone system. HELP - AM I THE ONLY ONE?

geek_sighkick, Sep 22, 3:00 pm

Oh and point final. . . . The Telecom (Chorus) engineer heard the hiss on his own phone equipment. So it's not the phone.

geek_sighkick, Sep 22, 3:03 pm

. . . You may have changed nothing, but you may now be on a cabinet which will give you higher signal levels.

If you dont have a proper install then get one, plug in filters tend to suck.

geek_richms, Sep 22, 3:24 pm

Hi richms. . . . I think I may have mentioned more than once that I have a proper install with a proper in-line filter so that plug-in filters are not required in my house. Yes, I may have higher signal levels, but the filter should still take care of the audio signals being back-fed into my phone lines from the ADSL router. p. s. I personally have done the City and Guilds (London) Radio & Line Communications Diploma and more recently did my computing degree with emphasis on Networking. My whole system is professionally installed by Telecom engineers and maintained by myself. But, this one has me beat. p. s. only blowing own trumpet to avoid the more obvious suggestions.

geek_sighkick, Sep 22, 3:48 pm

Hi again So does that mean you have tried a different phone? because the techs phones will always hear other frequincies and tones, and what type of phones do you have? have you got any without a power source to try. As a DSL tech we get these type of faults maybe 3 times a week, and they usually seem to be related to a power induction causing the dsl frequincy to induce at a lower rate through the filter or usually the modem/phone the customer has. 1 last thing! when you change the modems are changing all the cables as well? I only ask because it might be something as simple as a dodgy line or power cord. Let us know. . .

geek_boobeer, Sep 22, 4:25 pm

#9 i Agree I would try the inline filter just for test purpose in case your inline filter has died i have replaced an inline after a lightning storm but that was pretty major damage in the street the telecom Grey junction units got melted :-(

geek_david13, Sep 22, 4:28 pm

Well I would ask for a Tech to come and fix it! If you are confident that your equipment is ok I would get them in. If you do, write down everything you have done and pass it to the tech when he turns up. There are plenty of isolation tests that a tech can do, and a good tech should be able to rectify your problem. P. STelecom will try and scare you with the $81 bill, and tell them you just want 1 out.

geek_boobeer, Sep 22, 4:37 pm

Just to re-iterate. . . The inline filter was temporarily replaced with a brand new one and the results were the same. I have just removed the Alcatel phone that is normally the only one connected and done a test using a Pert Phone and the noise is still there. So it is NOT the filter (tested by replacement with a new item), it is NOT the phone (just checked with a phone not normally in circuit) and the tech has already been and not charged me for coming in the house (very kind Philippeans guy). Oh, I do not have a spare plug-in filter right now, but will test that theory when I get one of mine back. Please read the whole thread as I have repeated myself many times but thanks for your input ;)

geek_sighkick, Sep 22, 4:47 pm

information Sorry "He even checked out my in-line filter" was not as clear as "temporarily replaced with a brand new one" i have had them check them in the past by just redoing the terminations on the filter

geek_david13, Sep 22, 4:58 pm

sighkick it sounds to me to be a Telecom fault as you have not changed anything and the fault only started with an upgrade to their cabinet.
telecom will always tell you that it must be your system that is at fault but stick to your guns and say it is theirs. I have done that before and in the end got the fault fixed

geek_newbie5, Sep 22, 5:03 pm

Thanks people. . . . Sorry that my original mention of the in-line filter was not perfectly clear - my bad. Also, yes mber2, it must be their problem and, to be honest, was hoping that a senior Telecom engineer may just frequent these boards and be able to offer a reason for this problem. It definitely has something to do with increased signal levels and possibly a widening of the ADSL bandwidth frequency wise.

geek_sighkick, Sep 22, 5:12 pm

What Im trying to say is, I would get the tech back around. I am a senior tech and considered a DSL expert in my area. You definetly have a problem and it is the techs responsibility to identify it, as the isolation tests have showen it is only while the modem is in sync. And with the changing of modems, rules out that possibility. It could be a number of things and I hope that double filtering fixes this for you.

geek_boobeer, Sep 22, 5:34 pm

Thanks boobear. . . . I agree that I do have a problem and there would be no point getting the same technician back. He did say that he would ask his supervisor and keep his eyes open for a similar problem. He promised to come back if he found a solution. Would I be better served to make an online fault report to Telecom or do you suggest a better channel? I am in New Plymouth.

geek_sighkick, Sep 22, 9:08 pm

Telecom will have everything on file or if you have the card he left that would be better. I say get on to it ASAP. The same guy will most probably come back, but this time he should be a bit more prepared. A normal excuse out of a tricky fault like this is usaually the same you were offered. If you make it clear you want it fixed, he should fix it! or get someone who can. Some guys just dont see a fault like yours challenging, and if I was in Palmy I would jump at the oppurtunity for your challenge! ! ! Please keep us informed.

geek_boobeer, Sep 22, 10:05 pm

There is only one problem boobear. . . The tech kindly didn't 'officially enter the house' to avoid the mandatory $81 (or whatever it is) so I am not sure he would be able to mention that fact. He even fitted a brand new filter to see if that made a difference (he put my one back). Had it worked, I would have had no problem being billed as appropriate. - -The only difference between my installation and the usual is that the filter is in an internal dual box and the filtered line runs parallel to the incoming line (same cable) back to the demarcation point outside. From there it is connected to the house jack point circuit. This shouldn't make any difference since the main cable running along the street has multiple pairs.

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 2:33 am

Yeah you are right, the muiltiples play a large part of your connection aswell, the muiltiples that sre shorter in distance can do more damage then the longer ones. Do you have a 2wire system? I only ask because with certain muiltiples a 3wire system can amplify the noise. The $81 bill aint if he enters the house, it is if he proves it out of the telecom network. And in this case I will definetly get someone back to fix it. Cheers

geek_boobeer, Sep 23, 9:59 am

Hi boobear and thanks for coming back. . The cable running between the outside demarkation point is a blue telephone cable consisting of two twisted pairs. One pair extends the outside demarkation point about 18 metres max to the inside in-line filter. That box contains the filter and two outlets, phone and adsl. The filtered line is now returned along the same 18 metre cable back to the demarkation point where it connects with the rest of the house. This has been so for at least 4 years, probably longer, time flies. Will put my complaint down in an email to faults @ telecom as it is easier for them to decide what my issue is.

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 1:28 pm

Is that 18m cable a CAT5e or something with an appropriate level of twist? I actually have a similar arrangement but my filter is at the demarc point and both filtered and unfiltered lines are brought out on pairs in the same CAT5e. I have no perceptible noise and we have the upgraded DSL. My parents house has lots of phone noise but they still have old untwisted wires everywhere and no interest in paying for a proper main filter.

geek_poohy99, Sep 23, 1:54 pm

Hi poohy99 - The blue cable is indeed Cat5e And has not caused a problem as far as I know. It shouldn't make a difference if I take the unfiltered line to the back of the house and return the filtered line back along the same cable to the demarc point. You are doing much the same thing in reverse. - - - - - UPDATE: just gotten off the phone with Telecom line faults and proved conclusively that the line is clear if I turn the ADSL Modem/router/wifi unit OFF. Telecom now suggest that as I do not have Broadband with them I should contact my ISP. He did suggest trying to update the firmware of the Modem and also check with Wireless OFF (don't think I can do that on either the Netgear DG834G or the Linksys 160N). - - -So, the never ending saga continues like the Sands thru the Hourglass'.

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 2:08 pm

sighkick. . . you keep mentioning a filter (and maybe I've missed this bit in the thread) but what filter - and where? ADSL filters only get put on phones (not the dsl modem) - yes? Where you have the modem plugged in - is it straight into a wall, or is it a splitter (i. e. a phone and the modem into the same wall jack using a dsl splitter). My neighbour has had this EXACT same issue the last few weeks. I just replaced the DSL splitter (which has filter one side for the phone, and dsl port the other) and problem solved.

geek_flick13, Sep 23, 2:08 pm

Hi flick13 - thanks for your interest. . . I have mentioned this several times and may have called it a in-line filter or splitter. What I am talking about is epoxy sealed unit with 4 wires coming out of it. This sealed unit is installed where you wish to avoid using separate filters on every phone or where a security system is part of your home circuit. This filter/splitter/in-line filter is mounted inside the house within a double jackpoint box with two outlets, one for the phone (filtered) and one for ADSL (direct line). This in-line filter/splitter has been changed for a brand new, Telecom approved device and made no difference. The now filtered line is taken back to the demarcation box external to the house where it connects with the original phone system. If I can make it clearer, please suggest what I need to explain further. . . thanks.

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 2:22 pm

p. s. again for the record. . . I have a BSc Computing majoring in networks and had done a City & Guilds (London) Radio & Line Communications Diploma many moons ago as part of my Marine Radio and Radar Maintenance courses. I mention this in case anyone actually accuses me of putting a filter on the ADSL modem! This fault only appeared 5 weeks ago. . . nothing at my end has changed - in fact I even bought a $200 new Linksys 160N believing my trusty Netgear may have been the problem. It has me beat. . . .

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 2:27 pm

Update. . . Upgraded the firmware on the new Linksys 160N-AU Annex A - no change.

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 3:53 pm

Just a thought . . assuming noise is entering the phone via the wire pair rather than RF you could try placing a cap across the wires, and/or caps from each wire to a local earth ground. I know this is not really a formal telecom solution but necessity is a mother and all that . . . :)

geek_poohy99, Sep 23, 4:57 pm

Good thought poohy99 but. . . . The 'noise' that is causing the problem is in the audible range and sure, I could filter that to earth but it would remove that frequency range from my conversations and, more importantly, from the Dial-Up range too! I will see if I can set up my old Dynalink (non wifi) to cover the ports I need. Last time I looked it only had the standard ports listed :(

geek_sighkick, Sep 23, 5:21 pm

Ok. . . . you said way back in post #1 that when you plugged an older modem in it was fine. I'm guessing that modem was not ADSL2+ compatible, but all other modems you have tried are? And am I also correct you have an adsl2+ signal to your house?

geek_flick13, Sep 24, 7:27 am

When Chorus upgraded the cabinets around here we had terrible problems with connection, way worse than just noise it would cut out and back again all the time, 2 techs later the last once discovered the guys had not terminated the cabinet properly, lol they had rushed it, the guy re-termintaed our lines and it was all sorted. might not be your problem, but it may be at the cabinet? ? ? ?

geek_malachiman, Sep 24, 8:29 am

Another possible work-around If you're able to switch to 'naked DSL' that should make the problem go away. I'm a bit curious to know though why you need to use dialup as well as DSL and obviously this won't work at all over a naked DSL connection. . .

geek_little_egypt, Sep 24, 12:13 pm

a link to see if ADSL2+ is enabled for your address yet. . . http://www. telecom.co.nz/broadband/speed/adsl2 . . . I like this place here at TradeMe.

geek_olack, Sep 24, 12:28 pm

Thanks for all your posts. . . . let me reply. #39 flick13 - when I plugged in the older Dynalink I must have struck a time when the noise was not present. The reason I removed that modem quickly was because it didn't have the port forward needed for my setup. (I run a VMware Server running three OS's plus a Web & Mail server). I will have a go again and see if I can set the port forwarding properly to enable a non-wireless test. - - - malachiman: it is probably something as simple as that but I get no joy (from Telecom) re Broadband because I am a World-Net customer. World-Net have not replied to my email enquiry yet. ---- little_egypt:I use dial-up as well ($7. 95 pm Raider.co.nz) as it acts as a backup to ADSL and I download about 1GB every 3-4 days on dial-up (when it works at 56kbps) and it obscures identification somewhat on torrents ;)- - -olack: that link only works for Telecom broadband customers, is there a way non-telecom broadband customers can check?

geek_sighkick, Sep 24, 7:27 pm

What part of NP are you in sighkick? Our roadside cabinet on the corner of Fitzroy St & Clemow Road was upgraded way back in Feb. Funny I should read this now though. . . I noticed a hiss over the (VOIP) phones at work out at Bell Block tonight - fine here at home though.

geek_peg228, Sep 24, 10:57 pm

Hi peg228 Westown, Pembroke St. Closest cabinet I know of is corner Tukapa / Maratahu Streets (near main entrance to Rugby Park). I think that because I am about 800 metres from Frankleigh Park exchange, that will probably be my 'roadside cabinet'. I can hear fine on the telephone but that 'hiss' makes the dial-up negotiate a low 31. 2kbps instead of the usual 52 or so.

geek_sighkick, Sep 24, 11:59 pm

Well You have all the quals. You should know how to troubleshoot it.
You've eliminated the ADSL modems as the fault. You've eliminated the splitter. You've eliminated the phone - right?
So whats left - the cabling.
And the jackpoints.
You know what comes next.

geek_lythande1, Sep 25, 8:43 am

Eliminate everything completely just router, phone line and spectrum analyser. repeat with a second router, and with no DSL signal. You should end up with some nice plots of DSL signal extending down into the audio spectrum which would unambiguously point to problems with the equipment or termination in the cabinet.

geek_little_egypt, Sep 25, 12:27 pm

Had a chat with my ISP and. . . . they are also at a loss. I am going to take a Gigabit Router out of the equation next and then try my old Dynalink non-wireless ADSL modem. It has been suggested that I try a filter IN THE ADSL LINE into the modem which will effectively block all the higher frequencies needed to run ADSL - but who am I to argue ;)The problem is to get someone to double check the terminations on my line in the 'cabinet'. I say 'cabinet' because I believe in my case it will be the original exchange as I am within 800 metres of this. The Soap Opera will continue like the 'Sands Through the Hourglass' ;)

geek_sighkick, Sep 25, 3:08 pm

sighkick. . . you didn't really answer my questions from #39.

geek_flick13, Sep 25, 4:29 pm

flick13 No, I do not have ADSL 2+ to my house and I believe it is scheduled for December 2010. Yes, they are installing road side cabinets all over New Plymouth. No, I am not with Telecom for Broadband. The old Dynalink ADSL modem is not ADSL 2+ compatible and the perceived 'fix' was just that. I must have chosen a time when the line was quiet (happens occasionally).

geek_sighkick, Sep 25, 4:55 pm