Just bought a pc but no os on it

That's not Linux's problem, it's theirs. Or yours. Don't you tell them that all the Linux support they could ever need is available online, for free!

geek_rua69, Mar 26, 1:31 pm

Then they're going to struggle with any OS, aren't they!

geek_rua69, Mar 26, 1:32 pm

Bull shit its not mine if you learnt to read above a few posts up I use linux also myself but I just don't harp on trying to convert people. So I ain't no god, I just let them choose, plain and simple it is not always the best solution to a problem.

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 1:32 pm

Slightly older! Those are 7+ year old hardware. As said, Windows 7 in widely known to NOT support old hardware, that's how it was designed. You keep comparing Windows with Linux but not one distro and build version in specific. Of course XP won't have drivers because it wasn't designed to incorporate hardware drivers newer than 2001. How could they! The hardware didn't exist yet and furthermore, XP isn't updated yearly to incorporate new drivers like some of its linux counterparts.

Install XP on a machine with hardware older than 2001 and I'll guarantee that 99% of all the hardware will work right off the bat. The same goes with comparing XP to some flavour of Linux that you always fail to mention. If it's a newer version of Linux then you're just comparing apples to oranges. If they are of the same build year, then you may get some more similarities in pitfalls between the two.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 1:34 pm

The reason people give answers as a list of shell commands is because you can copy the whole list of commands off a web page, open a terminal and paste the whole lot in (as a block)

There's very little if anything the average user would want to do in Linux that can't be done in the GUI if that's how you'd rather do it.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 1:35 pm

I guarantee you that any hardware which doesn't work in Windows 7 will also NOT work in XP without having to find (by internet search or OEM CD) the correct drivers.

Find me one single example of a peripheral or onboard device that works out of the box in XP but doesn't work in Win7 . I dare you.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 1:37 pm

& what will that prove! If there is some hardware that works off the bat on XP but doesn't work in 7, it'll be because that system CAN'T run 7 anyway.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 1:41 pm

I agree. I think that the problem with these people using Linux, is with the johnf's handling of it, not the user. Point in case. I have three pensioners using Linux and have been doing so for going on a year now. One aged 74, another 73 and another 69. They took to Linux like a duck to water. It's all to do with how you approach Linux, and how you teach them to approach Linux.

Oh yes. I forgot to mention, that as a result, their friends have been learning to use Linux as well. I should organise an OAP LUG group ;)

geek_badcam, Mar 26, 2:00 pm

BTW for the sake of experimentation I just put a spare drive in the same machine and installed XP pro SP3.

All the same hardware still doesn't work. Generic VGA, no sound, no network and no SATA . I had to put it in IDE compatibility mode just to get XP to install.

And unlike Win7, I can't do the USB-network trick and have it automatically find the drivers either.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:03 pm

OK, so just re-reading your thread. XP doesn't support anything newer than 2001 . Win7 doesn't support anything older than what! 2010! So basically there's no version of Windows that will work on a second hand machine without a shitload of digging for drivers!

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:05 pm

No matter how many times I reread this thread. I still can't see where Lil'E "preached". Nowhere.

geek_badcam, Mar 26, 2:08 pm

everyone is different and those pensioner probably never used windows before either. Don't get me wrong I am a linux fan also but I just don't convert people I let them use what they choose has everyone has there own personal preference. SO no it is not my handling of it, linux does not suit everyones needs IMHO.

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 2:12 pm

I'm trying to see what lostdude's point is. I can put an ubuntu 10.04 CD into any machine I have here or at the centre, all the hardware I currently have available or any of the machines I've worked on in the last year, and most hardware will work right off the CD. Certainly in every case I get proper resolution video, sound and network support, SATA, keyboard and mouse. Enough to make the machine useful.

Is there a version of Windows I can install on any random machine from any random date where video, network, sound and keyboard+mouse will all work more than half the time! My experience says no.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:13 pm

Its always the case of linux user harping on how superior windows is and think they are better everyone. Windows users and osx don't harp on the boards here how better it is than linux. Just take it has it comes and just incase you missed it I am a linux user using the latest ubuntu 10 64bit edition in dual boot.

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 2:13 pm

Xubuntu is alright.

geek_puddleduck00, Mar 26, 2:15 pm

My point is, if you get some random second hand machine with no OS, no driver CDs and you want to get it to the point where you can do basic web surfing+email+office as easily and quickly as possible. chances are you can throw an ubuntu CD in it and be there in 20 minutes.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:16 pm

So, where did that occur, prior to the first mention of preaching!

geek_badcam, Mar 26, 2:20 pm

Yup pretty much. As I said, you can't compare the two. Their objectives differ far too greatly and doing so is just comparing apples to oranges.

Whilst Linux was focusing all their efforts into an OS that could support as much hardware as possible without problems, MS was hard at work trying to patch up their botched security. Manufacturers created drivers for Windows and since they were freely available to the public via the internet, why would MS waste time and money trying to incorporate them all into their service packs! It's illogical; but since Linux is the underdog, it makes perfect sense to incorporate as much drivers as a possible into their setup disks.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 2:21 pm

Lol, nothing has flaws quite like Windows!Some of them are even there deliberately.

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 2:25 pm

Yup nothing is perfect I have never said windows is perfect if you perhaps engaged those eyes to read. Nothing is perfect, its simply what you prefer to use, its much of a muchness incase you can't read

Cheers

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 2:26 pm

Read! Its the same old crap all the time anytime someone mentions what OS should I use and all the linux users jump in.

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 2:26 pm

As a service to their users, rather than as a service to themselves by profiting through WHQL.

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 2:27 pm

If you have any other alternatives for someone to freely try, you should suggest them.

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 2:30 pm

My point is, you can't compare the two platforms on installation experience alone without using a fair playing field. Use a Linux distro released on or before 2002 to compare XP and the newest distros on hardware released after 2006 to compare to 7. Any hardware in between, then Linux will win anyway.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 2:30 pm

So basically you just agreed with me that Linux supports more hardware right off the live CD than Windows (XP or 7), without needing to go seek out drivers!

BTW as well as supporting more hardware directly from a fresh install, Ubuntu comes preinstalled with a lot more useful software than Windows too. Go search that recent "things to install on a new machine" thread, just about everything on most people's list there's already something in Ubuntu that does the same job, or it's antivitus/antimalware/firewall-
/defrag software that isn't required in linux.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:32 pm

You don't have to preach alternative linux solutions to me. I use Linux too. But most of them either don't look as good or don't do as much as their Windows counterparts. Remember, aesthetics appeal does matter because if it didn't then Apple will still be trying to get a foot in the door.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 2:42 pm

Whatever floats your boat;

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Win2-7+Pack!content=113264 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/myfirefox/

Just a reminder; right now the OP has a machine that can't connect to the net, and almost certainly (they just haven't noticed yet) has no sound and crap video. And they likely don't know much about computers so finding out exactly what they have and helping them find drivers is going to take quite a while. Have fun. Count me out.

BTW if anyone wants a free factory-pressed Ubuntu 10.04 CD just drop me your mailing address, I've still got a pretty good stack of them.

I think most people here know how to reach me already ;-)

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:54 pm

Oddly enough, they seem more interested in bashing a linux solution than helping with a Windows problem.

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 2:57 pm

On XP! I don't think so!

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 2:58 pm

That's because until the OP comes back with exact hardware details there's nothing they can do to help. And I don't think OP knows what hardware they have or how to find out.

under linux btw; lspci or lsusb will tell me 99% of what I would need to know, and you can cut and paste it. Under Windows I know how to find the same details through device manager but it's point and click one broken device at a time. I don't know if there's an easy way to dump the whole list of device IDs. Perhaps some of you Windows gurus can take time from preaching how much better Windows is, and tell me that!

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 3:00 pm

+1 same goes for little egypt. I use linux also repairs hlv, even typing this message on one.oh and fyi I am not preaching about windows is better thanlinux before little egypt thinks that, its just the same old crap time and time again. I'll just deal with what ever the user and deal with it and not be like a religious priest trying to change people. If you like it then good for you.

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 3:02 pm

Totally missing the point.

OP has a nwe machine. They want to do shit with it and right now they can't.

All I'm saying is chuck an ubuntu or mint CD in and see how far they get. Chances are most things will work and they'll be able to do whatever they wanted. And if not, linux costs nothing or very little (in dollars or time, $4 buy-now on trademe and they'll know if it's going to work from the live CD in the time it takes to boot)

They've already tried installing some unknown OS (guarantee it's winxp, possibly win7) and nobody else is providing any better answers yet.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 3:08 pm

I'm not talking about OS here and you can't chuck FF in the mix because it already is cross-platform. I'm talking about most software written for linux. They either look good but do a crap job or do an excellent job but looks horrible. For the most part, even professionals that will benefit the most from a piece of software that ticks all the boxes for the work they do will dismiss it even before trying just by looking at it. It's just human nature, even though it goes without saying, nobody _really_ holds true to it until they are forced to learn otherwise.

("Don't judge a book by its cover" if you didn't get the reference.)

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 3:39 pm

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 3:45 pm

LOL and your point is! Go fire up a Linux distro from 2001 and post it here so we can have a laugh at its GUI as well.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 3:48 pm

Why would I fire up a distro from 2001 when I can just download a cutting edge release for nix!

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 3:53 pm

So you can be fair in your prejudice. XP looks like crap now, granted but so would a 10yr old debian distro.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 4:02 pm

You're deflecting.You keep going on about style and linux being fugly.
But how many times have you seen, and still see, computers with that default theme!

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 4:11 pm

I don't appreciate the personal attacks mate it is uncalled for, just because you do not like what I have to say you have to resort to saying I am having a tantrum. I'll repeat myself for what the 3rd or 4th time I am a linux user. I have 4 installs at home of ubuntu, debian, mint and puppy on a old shit box I loan out to people. 3 of which has not worked out of the box and needed a lot of messing about to get them working correctly.

I am more advanced than a simple pebkac user, I am evening configuring a liunx firewall at the moment in my spare time and trying out ipcop and smoothwall.

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 4:17 pm

http://linuxbook.orbdesigns.com/ch12/images/btlb1202.jpg

Clean and functional. The only place XP's default theme looks 'appropriate' is in a preschool.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 4:48 pm

Every time I go sort out a computer at a small business.

In the real world people just do work on their computer, they don't sit at their desk all day choosing the perfect wallpaper and desktop theme.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 4:50 pm

And they say Linux is only for geeks ;)

geek_badcam, Mar 26, 5:13 pm

You'll want mint then. ubuntu's a bit limited for things like multimedia and flash until you install another 80 MB of codecs and plugins, which is easy enough if you have broadband but a bit of a pain if you don't. mint comes with them all preinstalled.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 5:27 pm

"I don't appreciate the personal attacks mate it is uncalled for"

I do a hell of a lot of work with Windows too. Occasionally I have a bit of a brainfart where I can't figure out the right way to do something, and rant about how broken Windows is. A lot more often I just quietly fix problems and TM never hears about it.

geek_little_egypt, Mar 26, 5:47 pm

To you NOW, but when & what distro did that ss come from! It's the same as Windows 2K default theme. Clean & functional definitely, but only appropriate for preschools, hardly. Back then, ppl marvelled at the XP interface because it was the first of its kind and there was NOTHING to compare it to. Yeah now you can say it looks horrible, but thats because we've seen how many different styles on how many different platforms come to light!. Can't count right.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 6:15 pm

So what's the excuse for people to still use it in 2011, based on your qualifier of taste and style!

geek_cybertao, Mar 26, 6:25 pm

The excuse for many, is that they either don't know about linux, too scared to try it or they prefer XP for whatever reason. You'd be surprised how many people don't even know linux exists but then you'd be more surprised by the amount of people that DO know about linux, but prefer Windows.

Most people that prefer XP, don't even keep the default theme. They either install Windowblinds or hack the themes manager.

[Edit]

Just reread your post properly. If you're referring to the default XP theme, then it's because they don't know how to change it. Simple as that. How do I know! Because I've asked so many clients the exact same question and that's the general consensus.

geek_lostdude, Mar 26, 6:49 pm

geek_johnf_456, Mar 26, 7:57 pm

Nothing wrong with Vista if you have decent hardware to run it on.

geek_carkitter, Mar 27, 12:07 am

Time for a record change?

geek_jcmp21, Mar 27, 12:29 am